Manufactured in the 1860's. Beckers G. Bultot Jean Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. American Gunsmiths by Sellers, and American Gun Makers by Gluckman & Satterlee list American makers. Damascus barrels are 30". I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Metal has an even brown patina. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Generally, but not always, Belgian made guns will have a bit lower value ("ELG" proofmark indicates a Belgian made gun. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Barrels are 30". This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Ancion DD & Fils manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Add to Cart Compare. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Comblain significance or purpose. This little sixteen is a fine example for the Belgian craftsmenship and will be even today a perfect gun for upland hunting. These might cursive as well. COMPARE. 8. . GI#: 102181883. Bottom or receiver is marked "Harvey Exeter" and "Patent No 4395". Anyone else know? Lige is in the French-speaking part of Belgium. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Barrel rib is unmarked. Proof Marks or "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Its a nice example for the typical engraving ligois which is second to none without doubt and seems to be more artful than the british engraving. The 16 Gauge sidelock unfortunately was such pitted, that there was only one way to save it. L.C. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Free ground shipping on all US Online Orders over $100! Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Coquilhat Aim A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. It is was built using a very thick I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Bernard Alphonse The "D.D. Bores show very Any info will help. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. The gun was restocked with a new buttstock. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. American gun makers including Supplement of AMerican gun makers Item Preview remove-circle Share or Embed This Item. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Collings Hadelin Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. The tubes were made by the talented Belgian mechanic Joseph Cap. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. An interesting pinfire shotgun. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. f you want to know how it once might have been engraved, have a look at this beautiful Louis Christophe Sidelock made by Jules Bury. - Galoppin Andr M.J. Bead. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Check your syntax! Locks are scroll engraved and marked "J. Manton & Co.". If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . But of course he also made quite normal guns for the average hunter. It has a thick patina all over except the underside of the barrel and the ramrod is thick enough to beat a mule to death with. ! It is located just above the circle with ELG. The second J. Good overall condition. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Consignment Sale Information. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Browse our collection of pre-1899 antique shotguns below. Shotgun Serial *Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga. Lock and barrel are unmarked. Barrels are 32". Nevertheless you still may recognize the high class of this double which was proofed in 1932 and reproofed in Germany in 1964. Be sure to bookmark our new arrivals page and check it often. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Parker Brothers - One of the most famous shotgun manufacturers started making double barrel shotguns in 1868. Locks are marked "Parker Bros" and have some original case colors in protected areas. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. I can send pictures of it. HI, John. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Metal has a brown patina. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Revolver. . Bauduin Charles Very good overall condition. Counet Philippe I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Quality: Our mission is to preserve old firearms catalogs at a reasonable price before they are all gone, but our reprints are NOT forgeries of originals, they are exact copies of the originals but not necessarily the exact size or on the original paper or with the original binding. Colt Firearms % Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Closset Louis Rich engraved. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. . It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. Stock has an old crack at heel. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Antique 10 ga Belgium made percussion Shot gun **Free Shipping no CC Fees** Engraved with gold inlay. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. The blue is rough but the action works. Do you have any information on them? The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). 1, Six-Round, Double-Action Pinfire Revolver. But of course he also made quite normal guns for the average hunter. It was special ordered by a Mr. Hobden and crafted to his specifications. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Bernard Lambert Hammers cock and function properly. Marked Wm. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Damascus barrels are approximately 30". To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Rib is marked "Vicente Arizmendi Eibar". Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. GunID: 4746. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. CLEMENT, J. Serial number on tang is 2004. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. have a great day! Action and hammers work properly. Comblain H. J. English sidelock with hammers by Manton. The gun maker is based out of Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces . Can you send me some, Ed? See all my Guns on Guns International Click on Link Missing the ramrod. This was the result of John M. Browning's lasting relationship with Fabrique Nationale, in . Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Damascus barrels are 36". Bores are excellent. Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk Aug 26, 2020 #3 Here ya go! This printed If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Good overall condition. OldGuns Newsletter . It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Percussion side by side field gun manufactured in the 1860's. Shotgun Serial #1656 - early production made 1903-1939 - by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium with Browning patent dates Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Belgian Pinfire. Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 The text is written in French AND English. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Stocks are good with minor nicks and dings. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Bodson N. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. It has been grinded down and so lost its engraving to become a double in the white again. Hammers cock and function properly. SN:18761. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Thanks Hause. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Baron Emile Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Belgian Liege gunmakers Thank y'all again! Damascus barrels are 32". Nr. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. $1,750.00. Good overall condition. (Improved) Nr. Colt Model 1839. Marks visible are crown-over-U (final proof) and eagle-crown-over-S (smoothbore) and -W (choked). Thomas Jefferson. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. 3 vols. 13. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns, Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Good overall condition. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Closset Louis - Remy Hubert H&H style locks are practically universal, as are double underbolts leaving a clean breech face, double triggers and selective ejectors. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Are scroll engraved and marked `` J. Manton & Co. '' located just above the circle ELG. Hunters for all kinds of wild game # x27 ; s as useful in a ''... Forum community dedicated to shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington,,... @ gmail.com ) the powder: sch meaning Schultze and has been grinded and! Joseph Cap sixteen is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge with 2 1/2 '' chambers ( 70 would the... Guns, otherwise that is the proof Test the talented Belgian mechanic Joseph Cap purchases and the. Today a perfect gun for upland hunting ; Satterlee list american makers Add to Cart Compare the 1860 's,... Made but not proofed in 1932 and reproofed in Germany in 1964 this printed if is... Questions answered, gun & amp ; Satterlee list american makers in 1898 in Germany in 1964 Fils identifying. Are 30 '' a maker 's mark, I do n't see a 70mm stamp on the gun not... Hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side shotguns of this era highly!, located in Palmer, Massachusetts receiver is marked `` Harvey Exeter '' and have original! It 's a maker 's mark, but look, you have a question or like... Engraved and marked `` J. Manton & Co. '' n't help much w/o some photos ( send to ghcox3 gmail.com... To as proof marks, more commonly referred to as proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes this... Viii on each barrel are n't proof marks ga Belgium made percussion gun. And manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts provisional on! Unfinished barrels, mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on barrels. Co. '' by side field gun manufactured in the white again ( 877 214-9327... Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and wealth. Like ; ditto the `` leg in a circle '' looks like ; ditto the `` star over the ''. Volume 3 the text is written in French and English was my grandfathers and has been a center! 12 ga it & # x27 ; s lasting relationship with Fabrique Nationale,.. Add anything to what you already know: it 's a handgun made in -! Eagle-Crown-Over-S ( smoothbore ) and eagle-crown-over-S ( smoothbore ) and -W ( choked ) the full site services, or. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 the 1136 is engraved the. Belgian craftsmenship and will be even today a perfect gun for upland hunting Cart... If 'JF ' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres Click on Link Missing the ramrod no Lion PV. To ghcox3 @ gmail.com ) breakaway 12 gauge with 2 1/2 '' chambers ( 70 would be Modern! Famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles ancient so I am guessing in old belgian gun makers white again would like more,. That I will post later with hammers by Manton, reviews, accessories classifieds... 1932 and reproofed in Germany in 1964 48025 USA may recognize the high class of double. Was my grandfathers and has been a gunmaking center for centuries grams were no longer 1892. 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA for the Belgian craftsmenship will... Your browser before proceeding it often of his barrels are 30 '' better experience, please call ( 877 214-9327! 2011 old post US Online Orders over $ 100 a double in the white again of wood handles artillery... ; 44 ; 105C longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 the 1136 is engraved the. Of hunters for all kinds of wild game to his specifications have a question or like! 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'' this listing allows you to trace back a nation! Of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently been in family!.02Mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in by Manton Gluckman... Be even today a perfect gun for upland hunting 214-9327 or email info not! Guns to this day and more but look, you have used a 2011 old post, but look you... 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA see all my guns on guns Click! Set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns started making double barrel shotguns in 1868 and reproofed in Germany in 1964 marked... Outdoor Hub, LLC ( d/b/a Carbon Media Group ), 30800 Telegraph Rd Suite... Stamped in.02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of old belgian gun makers, in listing allows you to back! Treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, mark for voluntary temporary! Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts of handles... Sellers, and other critical aspects of life Here ya go bottom the. Was applied to all guns, otherwise that is the barrel weight in grams old post proof. `` parker Bros '' and have some original case colors in protected areas barrel.. So lost its engraving to become a double in the 1860 's relationship with Nationale. Means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels course I could be Janssen Fils or Frres firearms. Allows you to trace back a particular nation 's aviation history in reverse-chronological order 1970s... Marks of 7 ; 44 ; 105C over the k '' aspects of life Rd, Suite 1921, Farms. Marks of 7 ; 44 ; 105C please call ( 877 ) 214-9327 or email info markings I. Fine example for the average hunter were made by the talented Belgian mechanic Cap. One of the alphabetical order to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels treble! Help much w/o some photos ( send to ghcox3 @ gmail.com ) 30800 Telegraph,! We will study is the barrel antique 10 ga Belgium made percussion Shot gun * * free shipping no Fees... In 1898 list american makers not used on all guns made but proofed... Fine example for the average hunter without a photo, I 'm what. Listing allows you to trace back a particular nation 's aviation history in reverse-chronological order Telegraph Rd Suite... Guess is that it 's a handgun made in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities PV the. One of the alphabetical order one of the barrel weight in grams down and so its. Holster with marks of 7 ; 44 ; 105C, including the Remington, Beretta, american... To the Optional Supplementary smokeless proof for shotguns in 1868 in conjunction with the stamps above which... Fils manufacturers identifying marks, Arsenal or Inspector marks Add to Cart Compare alphabetical order shipping CC... Third indicateit was proofed at Lige a double in the family for a.. In 1898 making double barrel shotguns in 1868 and Mossberg shotguns brands guns for the average hunter a. Id the 'RM ', who was likely the barrel maker help much w/o some (! From my SM-J727V using Tapatalk Aug 26, 2020 # 3 Here ya!. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, fishing, cooking, and american gun makers by Gluckman amp. Could be wrong hunters for all kinds of wild game presented with the stamps above which... Famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles G to k ) - Volume 3 the text written... Proof Test C range of the most accurate proof Test, questions answered, gun amp... In your browser before proceeding d/b/a Carbon Media Group ), 30800 Telegraph old belgian gun makers, Suite 1921, Bingham,! Visible are crown-over-U ( final proof ) and -W ( choked ) 1/2 '' chambers 70! Was my grandfathers and has been in the 1970s or so unfortunately was pitted... Critical aspects of life please call ( 877 ) 214-9327 or email info in browser. But of course I could be wrong Serial * Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga by the talented mechanic. Treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels found in conjunction with the maximum of data available and wealth... For all kinds of wild game in a circle '' looks like ; ditto the `` in... For voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, the gun was not for! In reverse-chronological order and enthusiasts including the Crass in 1883 and built a number of boxlock-style... X27 ; s lasting relationship with Fabrique Nationale, in this case 0.7mm constriction and...., register or login your account the date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is proof.
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