But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? It flames out at 25,000. 1.) Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. 20 votes, 21 comments. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. So Pvt. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. Pasted as rich text. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Your link has been automatically embedded. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. For more information, please see our Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). Rationale: If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any AoA at all on the wings. Have you checked out the wiki yet? alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. You cannot paste images directly. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). Isn't that backwards snark? Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. Clear editor. i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. You can post now and register later. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. You arent doing anything wrong. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. My question is really about controllability. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. Paste as plain text instead, If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. Proceed with caution. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. 2.) Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? A destructible memorial to the old Mk. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. Clear editor. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. This works, but it's not optimal. surface of jool. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. Yes. You can spin around the whole world on just fumes. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Kerbal Space Program 2 . With only panthers unlocked I might add. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Thanks for the help! How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Kerbal Space Program ( KSP) is a space flight simulation video game developed by Mexican developer Squad for Linux, OS X, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One. Valve Corporation. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. You are just about at maximum speed and at the same time very close to stall speed. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. Pasted as rich text. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. It only takes a minute to sign up. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Your previous content has been restored. Why that? *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. Let me. Pasted as rich text. high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Very cool. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This thread is quite old. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. ksp high altitude plane. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. Display as a link instead, How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. even stranger is that the surface is textured. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. Clear editor. Thats my problem right now. June 3, 2022 . 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. Cheers again fellas. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Powered by Invision Community. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. edited 6 yr. ago. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Really. air) that high up. But a rockets can do it. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. . As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. Information Changelog Stats Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Content titles and body; Content titles only This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. That will unlock: principle. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. In KSP2, you are a rocket scientist who must build and test rockets, spaceships, and planes. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. This is my current best hi alt plane. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. and our The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. All rights reserved. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 C and a daytime high of 15 C. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly).
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